Radu Miron, Problema 3

Moderators: Bogdan Posa, Laurian Filip, Beniamin Bogosel, Radu Titiu, Marius Dragoi

Post Reply
lost
Euclid
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 7:04 pm

Radu Miron, Problema 3

Post by lost »

Fie \( k \) numar natural diferit de 0 si sirul \( (a_{n})_{n>0} \) astfel incat
\( [ a_{n+1} ] \ = \ [a_n]^k\ +\ (k+1)[a_n]\ +\ 1, \) oricare ar fi n>0. Demonstrati ca daca \( (a_n)_{n>0} \) este convergent, atunci \( k=2 \).
Last edited by lost on Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
There are 60.000 bears just like me!
A better world for them would be
A BETTER WORLD FOR ALL!
lost
Euclid
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 7:04 pm

Post by lost »

\( (a_n) \) convergent => exista \( l \) numar real si \( \lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}a_n=l \).
Trecand la limita in relatia din ipoteza avem:
\( [l]=[l]^k+(1+k)[l]+1 <=> [l]^k +k[l]+1=0; \) notam \( [l]=y =>\ y^k+ky+1=0 \).
Fie \( f=X^k+kX+1, \ f\in Z[X] \). Deci f admite ca radacina pe \( y\in Z\ <=>\ y|1 \), deci \( \ y=-1;\ y=1\ \).

\( y=1 =>\ 1+1+k=0\ =>\ k=-2 \) (fals pentru ca k >0 )
\( y=-1 => (-1)^k -k +1=0\ \)
daca k numar par \( =>\ k\ =\ 2\ \)
daca k numar impar \( =>\ k\ =\ 0 \), fals.

Deci \( (a_n)_{n>0} \) este convergent daca \( k=2 \).
Last edited by lost on Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
There are 60.000 bears just like me!
A better world for them would be
A BETTER WORLD FOR ALL!
lost
Euclid
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 7:04 pm

Post by lost »

Acum... daca tot ma "corectezi"... e buna rezolvarea mea la problema ?
There are 60.000 bears just like me!
A better world for them would be
A BETTER WORLD FOR ALL!
bae
Bernoulli
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:39 pm

Post by bae »

***
Last edited by bae on Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Beniamin Bogosel
Co-admin
Posts: 710
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:01 am
Location: Timisoara sau Sofronea (Arad)
Contact:

Post by Beniamin Bogosel »

Ne uitam la sirul \( x_n=[a_n] \) cu recurenta data. Daca \( k=1 \) atunci oricare ar fi \( x_0 \in \mathbb{Z} \) sirul tinde la plus sau minus infinit. Daca \( k\geq 2 \) atunci \( |x_{n+1}-x_n|=|x_n^k+kx_n+1| (1) \). Deoarece \( (a_n) \) este convergent, rezulta ca de la un moment dat valorile lui \( |x_n^k+kx_n+1| \) sunt numai 0 sau 1. Daca apare la un moment dat valoarea 0, atunci sirul \( (x_n) \) va fi constant in continuare din cauza relatiei (1). Mai ramane varianta in care sirul \( (|x_{n+1}-x_n|) \) este constant 1. Deci \( x_{2k}=q,\ x_{2k+1}=q+1 \) sau invers, pentru orice \( k \) de la un rang incolo. Atunci obtinem \( q+1=q^k+(k+1)q+1 \) adica \( q^k+kq=0 \). Atunci \( q=0 \) sau \( q^{k-1}=-k \) (... nu mai am timp sa scriu acum, dar ceea ce vreau sa demonstrez e ca sirul \( x_n \) este constant de la un rang incolo...).

Atunci sirul \( x_n=[a_n] \) este constant de la un moment dat si are valoarea \( p=[l] \) adica limita sirului \( (a_n) \). Atunci \( p=p^k+(k+1)p+1 \). Atunci \( p=-1 \) este singura solutie posibila a acestei ecuatii, si asta doar pentru \( k=2 \).
Yesterday is history,
Tomorow is a mistery,
But today is a gift.
That's why it's called present. :)

Blog
lost
Euclid
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 7:04 pm

Post by lost »

bae wrote:E partial buna. :(

Daca sirul tinde catre o limita care nu este in \( \mathb Z \), e buna. Daca tinde insa catre o limita care este in \( \mathbb Z \), atunci nu mai este buna.
Pai \( [l] \) nu e numar intreg? Nu inteleg, poti fi mai explicit te rog?
There are 60.000 bears just like me!
A better world for them would be
A BETTER WORLD FOR ALL!
bae
Bernoulli
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:39 pm

Post by bae »

***
Last edited by bae on Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Beniamin Bogosel
Co-admin
Posts: 710
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:01 am
Location: Timisoara sau Sofronea (Arad)
Contact:

Post by Beniamin Bogosel »

bae wrote:Daca vei incerca sa arati ca din \( a_n\rightarrow l \) rezulta \( [a_n]\rightarrow [l] \), atunci vei avea o surpriza in cazul in care \( l\in\mathbb{Z} \). :wink:
Ceea ce doreste sa zica domnul profesor este faptul ca daca \( (a_n) \) tinde la un numar intreg, sirul partilor intregi nu neaparat are limita. De exemplu sirul \( a_n=(-1)^n \frac{1}{n} \) tinde la 0, dar sirul \( [a_n] \) este 0 pentru \( n \) par si \( -1 \) pentru \( n \) impar. Ceea ce doresc sa demonstrez eu e ca daca folosim si recurenta obtinem rezultatul dorit.
Yesterday is history,
Tomorow is a mistery,
But today is a gift.
That's why it's called present. :)

Blog
Liviu Ornea
-
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:48 pm
Contact:

Post by Liviu Ornea »

Scuzati intrebarea, dar ce vrea sa zica titlul "Radu Miron..." Exista un concurs cu acest nume?
L.O.
bae
Bernoulli
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:39 pm

Post by bae »

***
Last edited by bae on Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Liviu Ornea
-
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:48 pm
Contact:

Post by Liviu Ornea »

Multumesc pentru informatie.
L.O.
Post Reply

Return to “Analiza matematica”